L701 1.5 turbo questions

[TGL701]

Hello,

We are swapping a 3szve in the L701 atm. We go fo rthe turbo setup with a td04h turbo and aim for around 250-280 hp.

For this a lot will be bought:
New clutch super singlehyper race type

Td04h turbo and oil oines

Hardned 3,4,5 gears

Bigger injectors

Wastegate

Turbo manifold

strong h rods

Low comp 72.5mm heat treated pistons

Intercooler

Fuel rail billet

Spark plug colder iridium

Fuel pump walbro 255lph

High speed fans

Lightweight crank pully

King performance bearing kit

High camshafts

Head gasket mls trd 0.8mm steel

Lsd 1.5 way

As you can see, it is alot because we want the build to be sturdy and reliable with alot of power since its a daily driver.

Now the questions:

Will the stock crank hold this with no problem? Or should i let someone custom make this?

With the cams there comes washers, but do you guys advice upgrading any valves or seats etc aswell? If yes, i cant seem to find aftermarket ones unfortinately

Is there anything else besides brakes etc (so engine related) i have maybe forgot to think about that needs an upgrade or replaced part?

Thanks alot, these questions finish it for me

[Patrick_Hart]

So many questions
Firstly love the choice of chassis
L7addicted here too

Are you set on the 3sz block?
May I ask why?

Also those HP figures …are they at that for a specific reason?

Some reason from my point of view
if you want the most straightforward option then for the HP you’re looking for you could achieve it with an almost standard k3vet
In using the 3sz you have more potential power but you’re going to have to spend a lot to have itturbo capable like the k3 is already
Plus there is massive risk in ordering the 3sz parts from copy shops that will sell you parts that aren’t often even as good as factory parts in strength or fitment

Also I’ve found many people have found an almost standard k3vet is fast enough in the Mira with a few nicely done mods which are much more reliable and affordable

Lastly “hardened” gears won’t hold up to much boost at all …at least than standard on a k3. Neither axles and swaybar to suit

I think the best recipe is
K3vet transplant. Ideally refreshed with new factory original internals
Hardened engine mounts. Not solid just fresh nolothane or similar
Well made dog box with at least 3/4/5th gears straight cut with nicely matched lower final drive
Chromolly driveshafts
Chromolly lower arms and custom front swaybar
Slightly upgraded turbo or rebuilt for best response not massive and laggy. Ideal rx4 or smaller rx5 or rhf4 equivalent in ball-bearing
Good free flow exhaust intake and intercooler
High end injectors

Good aftermarket ecu like a link or motec

That with a nice tune will make you really good power around your figures …might be a bit lower but it will be tough and reliable and quick

If you’re a total monster you could build a tough 3sz bottom end later and go higher HP. But as a daily driver I’d reckon you’d be a pretty mad snake to think that set up isn’t quick enough!

Great to have another Mira but out there looking to get stuck in
Keep us in the loop with progress
Make sure you ask more questions and or PM me if you get stuck or want to swap notes

Converting these is what I’m basically doing all day every day now

Over all and everything else have fun and enjoy the process and good luck!

[TGL701]

Hey, thanks for the reply! And sorry for my english, since im dutch its not my steongest point

The choice for 3sz instead of k3 is because of being unique a bit to, k3 swaps have been done alot and we want to be somewhat refreshing haha!

Also, for what i have understood, the 3sz stock as it is is already a firmly sturdy engine that seems to handle good power increase. Because we are changing like all internal parts to handle the power i think this wont be a problem, for the building proces and tuning i already have a very good tuner that will do this for us

Driveshaft will be custom made, ecu will be standalone ecu. And exhaust system will be made by ourselves.

About the parts, the guy i buy this from somewhere in malaisia offers some good products, lot of usa made stuff aswell, provides alot of service and help with selecting the parts for our hp goal and i dont think he will give fake parts away.

And the 3,4,5 gears i ordered, seemed better he said, we both use a bit simple english and hardened gears is what iv got mentioned, and bit shorter ratio.

Since we already have the engine and car it came from with suframe etc changing it to k3vet will not be the option, and i think, but correct me if im wrong, that when everything is build and tuned it will be at least as good and durable as the k3vet

Btw, sorry if its seems like im offended, im not haha just try to explain why we choose this option.

About the bottom end, what would you advise? Crank cant be found forged but stock one will hold iv been told many times, custom made will cost me €6000 so thats anbit much. But what else could i change or add?

Thanks alot and really appreciate the long and detaild feedback, i love that!

[TGL701]

Some pictures of the ordered parts

[TGL701]

[TGL701]

[Patrick_Hart]

no problem on language. your english is great!!

No worries on speaking openly either
It’s best to be straight about this

now forgive me the same things because i’ll be straight with you here as well

@TGL701

The choice for 3sz instead of k3 is because of being unique a bit to, k3 swaps have been done alot and we want to be somewhat refreshing haha!

I have counted maybe three or four done properly in the world?
For sure not common
Absolutely not high power proper builds or proven builds
At least proven to last more than a couple of runs on an incorrect dyno

@TGL701

Also, for what i have understood, the 3sz stock as it is is already a firmly sturdy engine that seems to handle good power increase.

Not sure who has told you this. I’ve only read of many failures
The only advantage is that the cc rating is higher
All the other parts are designed for economy. At least the VET version is somewhat performance orientated
Or that it at least handles some decent power without needing to change parts

@TGL701

Because we are changing like all internal parts to handle the power i think this wont be a problem, for the building proces and tuning i already have a very good tuner that will do this for us

You are assuming that the parts you’re getting can handle the power. Which I would disagree with . At least for the effort and expense
But you can always try

@TGL701

About the parts, the guy i buy this from somewhere in malaisia offers some good products, lot of usa made stuff aswell, provides alot of service and help with selecting the parts for our hp goal and i dont think he will give fake parts away.

I for sure don’t agree with this
I haven’t seen anything good from Malaysian copy parts
It’s like people who go to thailand and buy a “genuine rolex” which is 1/4 the price
It seems like every week someone is telling me that they can’t believe how good the price is, that they seem convinced that brands like carillo and arp seem to sell cheaper through malaysia than direct from the factory and don’t know why they don’t list all their parts
Simple answer is because it’s fake
Or it’s a copy
Or it’s supplied as a complete lie

I’ve seen “Custom clutches” made “special order” “specifically for k3 engine” that are totally wrong fitment
I’ve seen engine internals made for other cars with terrible machining marks
I’ve seen "carillo " conrods that ARRIVED rusty
I’ve seen piston kits supplied “specifically for k3” that then are told they have to rebore the engine massively because they’re civic pistons. wrong domes. then crack almost instantly
I’ve seen "ARP " headstuds arrive in wrong sizes then expect the head to be ground to fit them

if it’s cheap and only available through a foriegn country then IT’S FAKE
And the 3,4,5 gears i ordered, seemed better he said, we both use a bit simple english and hardened gears is what iv got mentioned, and bit shorter ratio.

@TGL701

Since we already have the engine and car it came from with suframe etc changing it to k3vet will not be the option, and i think, but correct me if im wrong, that when everything is build and tuned it will be at least as good and durable as the k3vet

depends what you’re running here. but many of the subframes will work with either engines anyway

just seriously consider who’s making your parts before you go to all the effort to do all this work

[Mr_Gormsby]

Yes, beware the Malaysian parts and the the Malaysian hype.

[TGL701]

Thanks for the reply, now since you are sure it will be alle fake, is there a way i can check this? Dont want to spend serious money om fake parts. The parts com from ‘piston shop’ on facebook, owner is ahmad. Multiple dai enthausiast speak good about the shop. Can you maybe take a good look at it? See if there afe any leaks? Its not that its all very cheap to, paying alot of thousands for the parts.

Thanks alot for that

Also, you make me feel like i have made a big mistake with the 3sz… hope those few swaps that have been done and did not come out good was just bad luck then…

[TGL701]

I have been in contact with the seller, asking some things. All the parts will come with warranty of fitment and quality, also since its payed with paypal that can allways give me some backup.

Sure there will be junk out there, but i dont think all malaysian sellers are crap, as said before, it all seriously is not cheap. So that says a bit to.

Some parts are made custom by art japan, wiseco and JE. Thats why it is not shipped and we are still waiting for the parts to arrive, the intake, headers and fuel rail are locally made.

I appreciate the comments and pay serious attention to those, so thanks for that, it made me search for security a bit more

[Patrick_Hart]

yes you can get custom from the US makers.
but when they’re cheaper to get from malaysia and you speak to the US makers and they have no stock does that not make you wonder?
at the end of the day you believe what you want to dude

[TGL701]

Yes ofcourse, said like that it will. But look, he tells me there is no stock 72.5mm low comp forged pistons, so he will send a custom request in this case to wiseco. This costs me €500 more and have to wait 2 months but i cant see how this would not be legit? Also getting the original warranty and numbers from the manufacturer says enough right?

I seriously dont try to fool myself, or say you are wrong, i know there is alot of shit out there, but again, it is not cheaper then other sites or so, there is no stock, so most is custom made. Already got a 3sz exhaust manifold before from malaysia and the quality of it is excellent.

But if you know anyone, or can list me any proven things about this guys shop, pls tell me. Ofcourse i would think twice then. But for now i cant seem to find any. I am from holland, but that does not say i smoke pot every day, neither are all malaysians probiding fake or rusted parts

[TGL701]

Also, since about every part of the engine will be replaced for something custom or high performance, i dont see any reason why this build is shit compared to the k3vet, ofcourse the internals of the k3vet handle boost better, but we will replace every internal parts of the 3sz. So about the only difference will be the cc.

[Patrick_Hart]

i’ve tried probably half a dozen of the malaysian suppliers
some stuff works ok

i guess it depends what you expect from them
but i would never have said excellent results

i guess it just still seems very suspicious - why not order from the manufacturer?

oil delivery and i believe cooling is quite different between the blocks as well between the blocks
especially if you’re boring out so much - i only know of a couple who have done the 3sz and both had big issues with heat so watch for that - but both had piston shop pistons and had to bore so much i think thermal on cylnder wall was giving out first and wall cracking seemed unavoidable

you could strike it lucky. but i’ve returned a lot of stuff to piston shop and know many others who have too

i hope you get lucky though

but engine aside, i don’t believe “hardened” helical gears will hold up to much power increase
and what is your plan for lower suspension arms + drive shafts and sway bar?
what subframe and engine mount combo do you plan to use?

[Mr_Gormsby]

Hardened does not account for stronger. It will help with wear or heat issues. Have been there and while my materials engineering classes and such were so time ago the theory matches experience, hardening is about wear and surface damage.

[Patrick_Hart]

Indeed. Which does help a little
Have done this with gears which are replacing broken models which only just let go, so perhaps helping fatigue and decreasing failure rates 5% or so…but when putting a gearbox in that is designed for 1/3 or less of the torque is going to require much more of a remake
Or shares in the local repair shop so you can keep swapping boxes every other time you take it out

Also driveshafts!

It’s an interesting one that some of these “shops” make bold claims of performance and reliability but when you ask more about their experience you eventually discover that they have basically zero background

Not that a oncologist has to have had cancer themselves
But I do find it funny when people come to get bits off me or look at what I’m up to because sometimes seeing is believing and they see I have 17 Daihatsu in the lot and I can walk them through this that’s got that engine and I’ve broken that for that reason and that blew that up so I’m swapping it with this etc
I guess I see it more relevant when you’re selling something because you’re absorbed in it yourself and you’re just trying to spread the love than just another job selling whatever

Or maybe someone can offer me an overdue attitude adjustment on this?

[TGL701]

Tnx for the reply, i understand the worry believe me now i have that aswell. Ordering direct from the factory may be possible yes. But those fuel rails and manifolds can always be bought there i think.

Problem is, what would you advise on like gears and cluthces then? He tells me there are no aftermarket ones so its been made custom in thailand. Any idea where to get this made to handle 250-300hp otherwise? This would help alot ofcourse

Also when i send a request for like pistons and rods, how do i supply the info from the lart to them? I dont have that

My tuner here wanted the 72.5mm, since 72 is originally the bore in that case we dont have to cut it much, have seen alot of 73mm been sold on different places as well, in that case i understand you cut away to much resulting in problems

[TGL701]

Hello all,

Well, plans have changed. We go with the k3 block now. Since i can get one completely new this also saves me money on boring etc. The 250 hp goal stays the same. And have been thinking about ordering parts aswell.

-Conrods i will buy Pauter ones for k3vet
-Pistons i will get custom forged made in 72mm since there are no p&p ones out there i can find but still need to find all specs to fill in the order forms (help will be awesome with this :))
-intercooler, custom intake, radiator, head gasket, spark plugs and clutch i will get from Piston Shop, heard some good things about those clutches, i cant find any clutches that are capable of that hp that are from the shelf
-turbo i will get locally, if you have a good reccomendationni will highly thank you
-turbo manifold will be made locally even as the piping

Parts i dont have the answer for yet where to get:
-wastegate
-matching injectors
-good bearings
-good fans
-fuel pump
-good turbo oil lines
-strong gearbox, we wont use the k3vet one since we want it manual. We could use the 3sz one but both of them need work to handle the hp with no worrys, no idea where to start with this yet. Again, any help is awesome

The k3 engine will come with better fuel rail, arospeed crank pully and manual so thats a plus, lower end of the block including crankshaft is completely new and unused so will go for 72mm pistons instead of oversize now. The head comes from other k3vet engine with just 40k km on it so good as well.

Ofcourse, suspension and all other things will be handled as well, but thats not part of the topic

[Patrick_Hart]

i reckon you will have a lot happier set up with going this way
you can go after market fuel pump if you install a return line
but the factory pump can handle a fair bit!!

big cooling will always help

front mount the intercooler

dont have to go too high in turbo size to get those sorts of figures
roller bearing where possible. can spend a lot on these!
they will have a match in wastegate. otherwise tial seems good

you will need custom drive shafts and front sway bar and stronger lower arms
also if you’re going this budget you need a proper made gearbox

factory parts are very good quality unless you can source from a legitimate aftermarket brand
I’m a massive fan of factory knows best until you can prove you’ve run the factory parts and they have shown failure

standard injectors cleaned handle a fair bit
legitimate sard injectors are very good otherwise
a GOOD computer for re tune is important

How do you want to run the electrics?
are you going to convert the dash and run yrv or sirion cluster?
mira fuse box or sirion or yrv or custom?

To sound very boring - i think the best way to do this is to have the near standard engine installed and running happy first
there is a lot of time and set up to get it installed in the L7
this way if you have problems then you can sort that out without wondering if something modified is causing the error

either way GOOD LUCK
and hope you really enjoy it!!!
They are such an awesome car once they have this conversion!!!

[Mr_Gormsby]

All my clutches come from one person I trust who makes them custom for me while I stand around and help (mostly watch). Haven’t talked to him for a while but what Jim Berry from Race Clutches qld Aus does not know about clutches isn’t worth knowing. Such service is not cheap but is invaluable. My point is most stuff comes from places that don’t understand what they are selling and certainly care less about ascertaining your needs than grabbing your cash. When Jim is gone at least I have what he taught me and the lessons shared make me forget price.